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Thread: Earlier...

  1. #1
    Regular Poster Lue's Avatar
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    Exclamation Earlier...

    Um.. earlier today, I tried to kinda ask a question/start a conversation but it didn't go over so well. =/
    All I ended up doing was irritating players, and staff...


    I tried to point out that this server is causing me some chunk loading issues, and block lagg, when my friend's server doesn't. His is a bit cheaper, and has far lower specs than this one does. His server is also much larger, with more players and has quite a few plugins, and several worlds running at once, along with MultiVerse Nether, to give a nether for each world. None of the worlds have "limits" set on them, like you guys do. You can fly out to over 100k+ on the X, and Z coord on his server, in any world. You guys limit yours to 5k on the X and Z coord. Here, look:



    His Server info, and specs:

    • Intel Xeon E3-1240v3 (Quad Core @3.4GHz)
    • 2GB of DDR3 Ram.
    • 320GB SSD.
    • Don't know his Bandwidth, or connection speed.
    • He has 5 worlds and a nether for each world. Thats 10 worlds total, plus a Vanilla server running on the same system.
    • 28 plugins, 27 are active:
    • All his worlds are "Unlimited" using InfDev. You can go out to 100k+ on any Coord.





    Your Server info, and Specs:


    • Intel Xeon E3-1270 v3 (Quad Core @3.9GHz)
    • 32GB of DDR3 Ram.
    • Two 1TB HDD's.
    • 200Mb/s Bandwidth.
    • 1Gb/s Port.
    • You have 5 worlds. (I think)
    • Idk how many plugins you have.
    • You guys limit your worlds to approximately 5k on the X, and Z coord.



    You guys are hosted in Germany, and his is hosted in Buffalo, New York.
    But even at that distance, with a server as powerful as yours, I shouldn't be having Chunk Loading issues, or Block Lagg of any kind. The speed of the connection shouldn't have much to do with it, since I can easily play most games, and watch movies with my horrible internet. I have 0.08Mb/s Download, and 0.02Mb/s Upload. On my friend's server, I can play in maximum graphics settings with 4x Minimap, and 16x Anisotropic Filtering, and still get around an upwards of 190fps, with zero block lagg, or chunk loading issues.

    My internet:


    (If you can't see this image, please tell me.)



    On your server, I get around 90 - 140fps, in the same settings. Plus, if I attempt to fly around, or go anywhere, the chunks don't load for a few moments, and it looks like I'm free falling into some deep grey empty space, untill the chunks load. And when I mine, or place blocks, they keep popping back up, then disappearing again. On his server, it's nearly "seamless" I can fly around anywhere, and the chunks load instantly. When I mine, or place blocks, they stay exactly how I put them, with no weird disappearing acts. But then again... his server has a pretty "rough" community, with some people that I don't like to be around. That's why I'm here, rather than on his server.

    I prefer your server
    much, much more than my friend's, and I am in no way badmouthing it. I'm trying to explain what I failed to explain earlier, and I'm really sorry for causing any problems. =/

  2. #2
    Forum Admin Telluur's Avatar
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    Right. Minecraft works with a game loop, what most people refer to as ticks. Everything in minecraft is based on 20 ticks per second. This means that the server handles all block placements, destroys, lava/water flows, redstone updates, plugin calls etc 20 times per second. This is standard for every minecraft server. If you experience 'lag', there could be 3 causes:

    1. The server can't keep up; When this happens, the server has not enough time to execute 20 ticks per second. Somewhere in the server hardware is a bottleneck, this might be a slow cpu, slow reading/writing on a disk or a plugin doing hard math/computations. As this is purely server-sided, we've built a command to check if the server is performing optimal; /lag. Our server runs most of the time on 20 ticks. (it is fairly normal for it to be between 19-21 ticks.)

    2. Server connection; The connection: client <=> server is too slow. You explain that blocks snap back, this is because the way minecraft works: you break a block. Your client renders the block as broken, and sends a packet to the server that you've broken the block. Because your connection is too slow, the client receives the confirmation from the server that the block really is broken, to compensate for that, the client puts the block back in, and immediately breaks it again as it received the delayed confirmation.

    3. Underpowered pc; Again, this has to do with client side hardware. Your computer might be unable to handle the graphical or normal processing. This is the main reason you experience fps drops.


    It makes sense to say that your main issue here is the connection you have to the server. We even confirmed that by having you ping our server and his.
    This reason also backs up as what you describe as chuncks not loading, jerky block placement/breaking.

    I don't have a solid reasoning behind the fact that you experience fps drops, though I think that it is caused by the fact that your internet connection is rather shitty, and thus most of your packets get malformed. Your pc probably needs more time to correct these malformed packets and thus decreasing your fps. (Don't quote me on this though)
    Or your computer might have been doing other things when you compared the fps.


    The world limit; what you describe as 5k on our server and unlimited on his is a whole other story. We've limited our world border to reduce the size of our databases; every block placement is logged. Having a large world might cause the key values of the database to go out of range, crashing our database. We believe that there is enough space available for players to explore and build as they desire. If more builds start popping up, we can always increase the border.


    In conclusion; our server runs at 20 ticks (you can check that using /lag). Your pc runs minecraft at 90+ fps. Hardware wise both your computer and the server aren't the cause. If you check your ping to our server (either use commandprompt or /ping*) we see that it is rather high. the /ping commands colour displays how playable our server is for you, if you're green, you're all good. Orange is laggy, but playable. Red is just straight out unplayable.

    I find it very unfortunate for you to be having these issues, but it really depends on your internet connection, as other players from the usa don't have these problems.




    I hope this clear things up for you.




    *The /ping command is less accurate as it is calculated within a tick. This means that if the server runs at 20 tick/s, it adds a delay between 0 and 50 milliseconds. Use commandprompt ping for a more accurate measurement.
    Last edited by Telluur; 01-04-2014 at 09:30 AM.

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  4. #3
    Regular Poster Lue's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Telluur View Post
    Spoiler for Telluur's post.:

    Right. Minecraft works with a game loop, what most people refer to as ticks. Everything in minecraft is based on 20 ticks per second. This means that the server handles all block placements, destroys, lava/water flows, redstone updates, plugin calls etc 20 times per second. This is standard for every minecraft server. If you experience 'lag', there could be 3 causes:

    1. The server can't keep up; When this happens, the server has not enough time to execute 20 ticks per second. Somewhere in the server hardware is a bottleneck, this might be a slow cpu, slow reading/writing on a disk or a plugin doing hard math/computations. As this is purely server-sided, we've built a command to check if the server is performing optimal; /lag. Our server runs most of the time on 20 ticks. (it is fairly normal for it to be between 19-21 ticks.)

    2. Server connection; The connection: client <=> server is too slow. You explain that blocks snap back, this is because the way minecraft works: you break a block. Your client renders the block as broken, and sends a packet to the server that you've broken the block. Because your connection is too slow, the client receives the confirmation from the server that the block really is broken, to compensate for that, the client puts the block back in, and immediately breaks it again as it received the delayed confirmation.

    3. Underpowered pc; Again, this has to do with client side hardware. Your computer might be unable to handle the graphical or normal processing. This is the main reason you experience fps drops.


    It makes sense to say that your main issue here is the connection you have to the server. We even confirmed that by having you ping our server and his.
    This reason also backs up as what you describe as chuncks not loading, jerky block placement/breaking.

    I don't have a solid reasoning behind the fact that you experience fps drops, though I think that it is caused by the fact that your internet connection is rather shitty, and thus most of your packets get malformed. Your pc probably needs more time to correct these malformed packets and thus decreasing your fps. (Don't quote me on this though)


    The world limit; what you describe as 5k on our server and unlimited on his is a whole other story. We've limited our world border to reduce the size of our databases; every block placement is logged. Having a large world might cause the key values of the database to go out of range, crashing our database. We believe that there is enough space available for players to explore and build as they desire. If more builds start popping up, we can always increase the border.


    In conclusion; our server runs at 20 ticks (you can check that using /lag). Your pc runs minecraft at 90+ fps. Hardware wise both your computer and the server aren't the cause. If you check your ping to our server (either use commandprompt or /ping*) we see that it is rather high. the /ping commands colour displays how playable our server is for you, if you're green, you're all good. Orange is laggy, but playable. Red is just straight out unplayable.

    I find it very unfortunate for you to be having these issues, but it really depends on your internet connection, as other players from the usa don't have these problems.




    I hope this clear things up for you.




    *The /ping command is less accurate as it is calculated within a tick. This means that if the server runs at 20 tick/s, it adds a delay between 0 and 50 milliseconds. Use commandprompt ping for a more accurate measurement.

    Thank you very much. It's a rare thing for me to get a well written, and thought out response to one of my questions. Usually I just get told to go somewhere else if I don't like it. Or, I'm told to get a better computer, and so on.

    Again.. the internet though. I guess how you explained it this time does make much more sense than it did before. I do have crappy internet, as you can see in that SpeedTest result I posted. I guess I'll just have to deal with it, because I can't get better internet untill around May sometime when my 2 year contract with Century Link/Quest is over. I'm going to get comcast lol. Sooo sick of this horrible service. xD


    Thank you again lol. I do appreciate the detailed explanation.

  5. #4
    Minecraft VIP CashCalamity's Avatar
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    I have the same issue, and am paying $100 a month for a high speed connection I also time out frequently normal ping is 170ish and when a lot is going on in the server I have hit 474. Basically this means when I'm playing PvP I'm dead before I see anyone. It really sucks and I have no idea what to do about it. I'm also a player from the us
    "Bacon is everything, worship the Bacon, be the Bacon, Bacon."
    -Mr. Cash Calamity

  6. #5
    Minecraft Admin honkin_pigs's Avatar
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    The problem is you guys have fine internet, if the server were american your pings would probably be 20-50ms, But the server is hosted in germany meaning your data has to travel all that much further bumping it up as it has to bounce around through countless servers to reach it's end destination.

    I normally have a 30ms ping to the server, however if it was hosted in US that would be a 130s ping, it's as simple as that sadly
    Honkin_pigs - Slap Gaming Minecraft Admin

  7. #6
    Minecraft VIP lordgandalf's Avatar
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    The thing is us to eu and eu to us is always adding extra delay. The failing to see people is that you're gpu hasn't received the data or hasn't processed it yet. Timing out is when the client hasn't received packets from the server in some time then it's oh the server have gone and disconnects you

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